At Open Form Architecture we've started the process to build the machine and wanted to know who else out there is working on it like us, and if you've found different suppliers within Canada to avoid customs problems and costs.
At Open Form Architecture we've started the process to build the machine and wanted to know who else out there is working on it like us, and if you've found different suppliers within Canada to avoid customs problems and costs.
Where in Canada are you based? Whom are you using for the laser/waterjet/plasma cutting? I'm in Calgary and I'd love to make one of these things
I have committed to a CNC build and am in the process of selecting a final design from the many excellent open source projects available. The DIYLILCNC has a good chance of making it as the one. I to am concerned about availability of materials and finding suppliers within Canada. The one i choose to build must have easy and cheap access to parts. I am in Vernon, BC.
All of the parts are availble through places like acklands or some local industrial supply shop, (not the motors, but most of the building materials will be. I'm going to build a modified version of this assuming I can figure out some problems. But as far as parts go, yes they'll be easy to acquire.
@Darryl : I'm in Kelowna. I don't know of any local suppliers for most of the mechanical components, but the fastners (bolts/washers/machine screws) are easy to get locally.
Once and a while I run into problems bringing fasters across the border because of anti dumping laws, but everything else should be fine.
My plan is to cut out the pieces on a cnc router, and dogbone/fillet the joints (round tooling cannot create a square inside corner). Will keep you guys posted once I get a new 1/16" end mill
@ ALL:
Laser:
OFA is in Montréal and we have different people submitting costs for laser cutting the body panels. The 7 panels are expensive - around $700 CDN. I still haven't looked at Ponoko (anyone else?).
CDN Importing:
As for the suppliers, we're trying to source people in Canada, because the Duty / Import / Shipping costs are unpredictable, and at time ridiculously high. It is important to know that both UPS and FedEx (maybe Purolater) take care of the Brokerage fees and service if you use their "express" (= Air) service. You should very though prior. It means though that you have to send them to pick up the order, if the supplier won't prepare this for you. Ground service is cheaper, but more complicated in terms of border clearance.
Suppliers:
McMaster-Carr will no longer ship to small Canadian companies -only their established long-time customers. You can call their Clevland (Ohio) location for local distributers. In Québec we've contacted both Acklands Grainger and Motion Canada to have them submit cost quotes on the list.
As for bearings, I've found Kinecor - and they are more expensive, so only order the # of bearings you need (sold in packs of 16). Chris at DIY mentioned that we only need about 40 Skate bearings in total.
The Dremel 300 (395 no longer exists) can be ordered from Home Depot or Rona (cheaper); or whoever else sells it.
We're still sourcing the Transformer (from MPJA) and also the driver and motors (from HobbyCNC). Still haven't looked at the Wireing Harness (from Xsfans).
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Please let us all know if you've found more info!
Darrel Ronald
You can get high qulkity bearings for realitively cheap from "transmission supply" in calgary, alberta. i'm not sure if they will ship however. I plan to order them from here, i will post the costs as i find out. I'm sending out a quote tonight to a local laser water jet cutting shop, will update the costs aswell.
Further, if you folks know a medium-sized, hack-friendly Canadian biz, we might be able to talk them into stocking selections from the parts list. Just let us know and we'll make some requests.
I just got my quote back from laser equations in calgary alberta. For unmodified panels made of 1/4'' a44 supplied steel plate, costs 1,659$
For an average of 300$ a panel.
I'm going to send out a request for a quote from two other cutters in calgary aswell, i will post my results when i get them
I'm in Montreal too
Here is my issue with the DIY "open source" affordable solutions, they are usually neither unless you have access to a fully equipped lab.
Could the panels be CNC'ed instead of laser'ed? Might be cheaper and you might find a volunteer to do it for free (or in exchange for beers)
This is a lovely little toy, but DIY is a stretch :)
That being said, I might build one of these after I build a simpler DIY CNC (like buildyourcnc.com)
Dave
cdndave,
These panels can be CNC milled with some modifications to the interior corners in the CAD file (to account for bit diameter).
I agree that buildyourcnc appears to have some great plans, but it looks like none of them can be downloaded for free.
DIYLILCNC does require the use of a laser cutter or CNC router, but just about anyone can gain access these days (whether through a university, online service bureau, or beer exchange agreement). Very few additional tools are required.
Vers. 2.0: the entire gantry can be whittled from Ritz crackers.
In all seriousness...cdndave, I can relate to your yearning for a truly simple kit that will allow for precision fabrication for pennies on the dollar and little effort, but there is a lot in that request.
Of course we're a long way off from being able to, say, drive to Walmart and get their latest blue-light CNC for $59.95; there was a time not too long ago though that the same could be said for PC's or inkjet printers.
My point is, projects like this are a first step towards that end of really really accessible fabbing technology that will be [hopefully] at the grasp of everyday folks. We wouldn't have those things if people hadn't been in their garages and studios spending beer money on circuit boards (and vice versa).
Taylor and Chris:
Thanks for your reply :) And I appreciate the effort and genius that went into this design - my issue is again the "diy" moniker. As mentioned before - once I build a "cruder" diy cnc, I'll tackle this one - it's elegance is a thing of beauty, I would let it live in the office (not the garage like the beast from buildyourcnc.com)
I agree that Pat's site does not offer plans per say, the videos contain enough detail for a DIYer to build a crude CNC mill. Instructables is also a valid source of ideas and plans.
I too look forward to the day where I can buy a mini-china machine at walmart for $80. In the mean time I slowly hack away at my build, investigate Contraptor and keep my eye on this project :)
Keep up the good work - it inspires me :)
Dave
@Scweppes (& Others):
The lowest quote so far for laser cutting the 7 panels is $463 (incl. Taxes) at COOP Techno Laser in Sorel-Tracy, Québec - 1.450.743.2411. We have yet to actually cut them.
I also have Acklands-Grainger (https://www.acklandsgrainger.com) giving a quote for the full list of McMaster-Carr products, but they're going slow. I told them to keep an order list because there are all us others wanting to build the machine. Perhaps Acklands can relay this order information internally to you others. I have been dealing with Sylvain Methot (methots@agi.ca) so you can also get a quote from him but sent from a closer location to where you live.
@ Taylor, Chris:
As the discussion above shows, this is a lot of work. I have easily put in 20 - 24 hours just in sourcing the materials and getting quotes. I suggest that we compile this information at the end in order to save everybody else time!
Good luck - and keep the information flowing!
Darrel
I purchased the full McMaster-Carr parts list, about a week ago, and it came to $279.35 US, including Sales Tax and Shipping.
Darrel, it is really exciting to see you guys helping each other out.
I'm always happy when I can help incite hard work :)
We will definitely have a place for your info here. Keep it coming!
Darrel, was that quote for the masonite, with the material supplied, or steel?
@cdndave : "Could the panels be CNC'ed instead of laser'ed?"
Yes, most definitely. I've prepared the cnc files already for my machine. Just need to find more free time to do some cutting and fit tests. If all goes as planned, I will share with everyone else :)
@Schweppes : "For unmodified panels made of 1/4'' a44 supplied steel plate, costs 1,659$"
Honestly, not to detract from the diylilcnc project; but if you're going to go to that cost for material there are better designs. Are you familiar with a product called 8020 ?
Dremels... I plan on using a Porter Cable 7310 compact laminate trimmer. K2 makes an aluminum bracket for cnc purposes, but I believe the stock base plate could be modified easily for mounting. There are many tooling options with 1/4" shank
Nazerine, I'm just posting the quotes i've been receiving from local companies. I *really* don't want to spend that kind of cash on just the gantry cut outs. Maybe someone else is willing. By 80/20 are you talking about the industrial erector steel fabs? Or is that another free cnc machine design?
If you happen to know a cheaper place to get steel plate fab'd out, please let me know, near all the quotes i'm getting are over a thousand.
Nazerine, I was considering adapting the plans to use the same router. My one reservation was that it is only single speed. Chris responded on this thread (http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/parts-list) on how having a single speed will limit your range of materials.
@Schweppes:
Yes the quote above - $463 (incl. taxes) was for the 7 panels cut out of 1/4" masonite.
Darrel, do you happen to know if they would be willing to ship out of province?
@DNA Works:
I cannot say if they will ship, but please feel free to contact them (I posted the information above). Maybe if we all place an order there, it can save us money? But considering that Masonite is a dense (and therefore heavy) material, it would be worth comparing the shipping costs to you versus a price quote from one of your local supplier. It is all worth figuring out and comparing costs. If you contact COOP Techno (above) you can always mention our name: Architecture Open Form.
@ ALL - Canadian Order Update:
We have now ordered all the parts. In the end we ordered most of the components from the USA, and shipped locally to a person we know. This will then be forwarded to us over the border.
McMaster-Carr (Distro through Motion Canada):
We did manage to find the McMaster-Carr products through Motion Canada in Montréal, and I suggest you contact them, their total cost is roughly $530 (incl. tax). Please contact: Alexandre Chaurette (alexandre.chaurette@motioncanada.com). They are one of the McMaster-Carr distributers in Canada, and the price is good.
Drivers, Motors, Cables & Electronics:
We sourced all of these from the American companies, to be shipped to Canada.
Skate Bearings:
We sourced from Kinecor (in Montréal) and bought 3 boxes of 16ct Abec 7, sealed bearings. $57.65 (incl. taxes).
Dremel:
We bought the Dremel #300 from Rona (online) that included a bonus 75-piece bit set. It was cheaper than Home Depot. $79.00 (incl. tax). As you have read in the other forum posts, the Dremel #395 originally specified is no longer on sale. I hope that the z-axis will fit this fairly close, but I know that the body is a different shape (from talking with Dremel).
Gantry Body:
We -like the others- are having initial difficulties sourcing the 1/4" Masonite sheet (0.22" - 0.24" actual thickness). Our laser cutter company has been able to find 0.19" thickness, but I don't want to re-dimension the drawings to make the slots fit this. We're debating going to MDF, but still hesitant about the material change, and further, if we go to MDF, our laser cutter won't do it because of the burning glue.
Total Costs:
The total is about $1300 CDN and this excludes the computer tower and its accessories. The Linux/EMC2 operating system is of course free.
*If you need names or contacts, I can give them.
Good luck, Darrel
Very exciting, guys! Do keep us posted please.
I'm interested in the Porter 7310. How large is it compared to a normal dremel? It sure would be nice to have 3/4HP and 30,000 rpm, not to mention the 1/4" collet.
I've always been happy with the price and service from Canada bearings http://www.canadianbearings.com More then other bearing suppliers. Even http://www.motionindustries.com located down the street from me. My problem with motion industries has only been billing and shipping problems, but most of these problems are related to the company i work for having many departments and locations. So check out both companies before you buy.
cheers.
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