http://diylilcnc.org/forum/tags/material Free, open-source plans for a low-cost 3-axis CNC mill by Taylor Hokanson and Chris Reilly. Sponsored by the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. en-US Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:00:41 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://diylilcnc.org/forum/search.php http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/my-diy-cnc-project-is-better#post-210 Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:03:42 +0000 Chris 210@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@amigaman, great work! This looks awesome. Please keep us posted on your progress; we'd love to have pics of your finished build in the gallery section if you're willing. </p> <p>I'm curious about the PVC, where did you have it cut? I know that without the proper setup, PVC can be pretty nasty on a laser cutter due to corrosive off-gassing. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/my-diy-cnc-project-is-better#post-206 Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:32:48 +0000 DIYengineer 206@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>where did you buy the black PVC? </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/my-diy-cnc-project-is-better#post-203 Fri, 29 Jan 2010 18:54:04 +0000 amigaman 203@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>I am building mine out of .25" laser cut PVC. I can blue the edges together with PVC cement to make it one solid piece. Pictures here:</p> <p><a href="http://astromechbuilder.com/mechloader/v/R7Dude/CNC/" rel="nofollow">http://astromechbuilder.com/mechloader/v/R7Dude/CNC/</a></p> <p>I just ordered all the electonics and hardware. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-177 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:27:26 +0000 Taylor 177@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Jim,</p> <p>Did you have the file from our the downloads section laser cut? If so, you should already have slots on your panels.</p> <p>If you somehow have the overall shapes but are missing slots, I suppose it's possible you could make a little router jig to add slots by hand. Let us know if you go this route and perhaps we can help advise on building a jig. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-169 Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:17:59 +0000 JAMESDONOHOE 169@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Hi,</p> <p> Rash young man that I am have had the parts cut before reading up on the T-bolts.<br /> In retrospect they are the obvious way to go. I had problems anyway locating barrel<br /> nuts.</p> <p> Any suggestions on cutting slots at this stage?</p> <p> Jim </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-155 Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:07:05 +0000 DIYengineer 155@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>The pictures of the First-Gen machine look AMAZING! </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-140 Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:07:51 +0000 Taylor 140@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@OFA</p> <p>Cool! I'll work on cleaning up the AI file - it's not ready to release directly without some housekeeping. This will take a couple days, so don't hold back if you think it's just as easy to work straight from AutoCAD.</p> <p>To answer a questions I forgot earlier - do go ahead and keep all slots centered when you change their size. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-139 Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:34:43 +0000 Open Form Architecture 139@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@ Taylor: </p> <p>Thanks for doing the "Demo File" - I've had a chance to test it, and what happens is that Illustrator (when I export from Illustrator to either DWG or DXF) is that Illustrator creates a series of blocks within blocks, none of which are parametric. </p> <p>I tried to edit the "symbol definition" in Illustrator CS4 and it seems to update without too much problems. I was also planning to go slightly bigger with the holes - from 0.24" to 0.26" instead -in the case of 1/4" MDF (with a real uniform thickness of 0.25"). This way the holes won't be too snug.</p> <p>Perhaps send me the Illustrator file to test, or I will just do it from scratch in the AutoCAD file I've already modified... It's probably as quick. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-138 Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:12:59 +0000 Taylor 138@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@OFA - Sorry for the confusion! To clarify:</p> <p>MDF should be fine, or even better than Masonite (as it's less likely to peel). I don't think, without having tested it personally, that the added weight should be an issue.</p> <p>Our laser runs straight from Illustrator, just like a conventional printer. That's why our working files are in AI format. Initially, when we completed the design, we had an AI file with symbols that represented the slots throughout the gantry. We stripped out the parametric nature of the symbols in an attempt to make a PDF file that was universally accessible (or as close as possible).</p> <p>It sounds like we need to collect examples of workflow from the community, then respond to commonalities in future releases of our CAD files. I'll post a little <a href="http://diylilcnc.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/parametric_test.zip">demo file</a> <strike>in the downloads section</strike> of an AI file containing two instances of the same symbol. Try importing this into AutoCAD and see if you can get the symbols to read as blocks. If you can, we can look at releasing a symbol-based version of our AI file. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-137 Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:22:13 +0000 Open Form Architecture 137@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@ Taylor - Continued:</p> <p>I forgot to mention, that working from Illustrator &gt; to AutoCAD makes all of the holes individual blocks. This of course means that in AutoCAD I cannot do a quick update of all the blocks. If I redo all the holes as one block, then this should (ideally) be fed to others. </p> <p>Also: I assume that all the holes for the tabs should be centred according to the centre hole? And if I'm going to redo all the blocks, I guess I have the choice of still doing the masonite, because I'm going to resize everything anyhow. In this case, do you think Masonite is still better than MDF? </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-136 Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:13:19 +0000 Open Form Architecture 136@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@ Taylor: </p> <p>I am looking at doing the panels with 1/4" MDF, which seems to me the most logical option. However I still fell like I don't have a clear answer from you about the material. If I understand: MDF is good, even if it is slightly heavier. As you say it (might be) is more expensive -but likely not hugely different. </p> <p>The major issue seems to be then, that the MDF is not between the 0.21" to 0.22" as shown in the other post: <a href="http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post" rel="nofollow">http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post</a> and that we will in ALL cases need to adjust the holes (and tabs) to fit. I measured a piece of 1/4" MDF here at the studio, and it was exactly 0.25" = too big for the holes.</p> <p>* Concerning the drawing set, I did have problems with the extra (missing) panels you added. The updated driver case boxes were SPlines, and caused problems to the Laser cutting machine. I therefore had to redraw the updated parts. I just wanted to let you know. I will look at AutoCAD and the feasibility of redoing (by block) the tab holes so that they can be updated to different thicknesses. I work with AutoCAD 2007 files.</p> <p>Darrel </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-135 Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:49:51 +0000 Chris 135@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@OFA,</p> <p>ditto what Taylor says. There's a little more info <a href="http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post">in this post</a> about adapting the slots and tabs for different material thicknesses. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-134 Sun, 06 Dec 2009 00:39:28 +0000 Taylor 134@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@OFA,</p> <p>I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a material crappier than Masonite. We used it to keep things cheap, and to demonstrate that some keen engineering choices can make up for basic materials.</p> <p>When it comes to weight, you're in luck. Initially, we found that the behavior of the gantry actually improved when bearing more weight. That particular issue has since been solved with longer Y bearing assemblies (for improved contact with the rail), but it demonstrated that a heavier panel material shouldn't hamper the movement of the device. Further, we built gen. 1.0 with 1/2" acrylic, a material that's sure to outweigh the MDF and plywood options you listed.</p> <p>I think the main issue will be sizing the tab holes to match a variety of material thicknesses. If there's interest, I can look at creating a parametric version of the file (the easiest way for me to do this is through Illustrator/symbols). If we do go this route, what programs do you all have access to? What would be the most useful file format? </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-132 Sat, 05 Dec 2009 02:33:43 +0000 Bill 132@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>I was not able to find a supplier for the Masonite and just wasn't comfortable with using MDF, so I ended up getting 6mm Baltic Birch Plywood. It's not as cheap as Masonite or MDF, but was still pretty inexpensive. I'm planning on starting to laser cut the parts this weekend and will report back how it goes. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-130 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 23:14:20 +0000 Open Form Architecture 130@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@ Chris: </p> <p>So what is your and Taylor's final opinion about using MDF 1/4" (0.25) instead of Masonite 1/4" (0.22-0.24)? It seems that we're having difficulties finding the right Masonite (in multiple regions) and a substitute option could be helpful. Ideally we don't need to re-draw all the holes, etc. given that we're not entirely familiar with the components. </p> <p>From my experience MDF is a more robust material (at it's edges) and less susceptible to chipping and peeling. I have a 1/4" MDF panel right beside me and it feels fairly light but I have had a harm time finding links to a comparative analysis of Density (Weight:Volume ratio) and whether MDF is much heavier than the Masonite. My fear is that MDF might be heavier and cause increased strain on the motors.</p> <p>From Wikipedia - "MDF":<br /> "MDF has a typical density of 600-800 kg/m³ or .022-.029 lbs/in3"</p> <p>From Wikipedia - "Hardboard" :<br /> "Consequently, the density of hardboard is 31 lbs. or more per cubic foot (500 kg/m³)[1] and is usually about 50-65 lbs. per cubic foot (800-1040 kg/m³)"</p> <p>But I don't know if we can go by this.<br /> Darrel </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-129 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 17:44:08 +0000 Chris 129@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Darrel, this should be no problem structurally; If you leave everything as is, the tabs will not fit as snugly and may stick out too far. So you may want to adjust the tab &amp; slot lines in the DXF to more closely match that material depth.</p> <p>Here are the measurements we used:</p> <p><img src="http://diylilcnc.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Picture-59.png" /></p> <p>Here's a link to a drawing of just the tab and slot shapes to use as a reference:</p> <p><a href="http://rainbowlazer.com/3d/rhino/cnc-routing-technique-for-milling-interior-corners/">Vector path for 1/4″ laser-cut t-bolt joint (.dxf)</a></p> <p>In any case, I'd recommend doing a test if possible to see how the fit is. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-127 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:44:30 +0000 Open Form Architecture 127@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>@Chris: </p> <p>I am running into a similar problem with the 1/4" Masonite sheets, but have been able to source a thickness of 0.19" - is this too small? Or can I use this?</p> <p>Thanks, Darrel </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-112 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:49:53 +0000 Schweppes 112@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard</a></p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonite" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonite</a> </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-108 Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:34:58 +0000 GunnarIT 108@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>I'm also having troubles finding Masonite where I live.</p> <p>Can anyone shed some light on what the difference between Masonit and MDF are ?</p> <p>I can't get any precise answers on this subject. Most carpenters reply "It's mostly the same". </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-106 Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:45:49 +0000 Chris 106@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>FYI everybody, we just noticed there is one piece missing from the driver board case. It's the top panel and we're working on getting it into the DXF. I will post in the revisions topic when we've updated it. Thanks! </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-88 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:26 +0000 JRdezigns 88@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>What are your opinions on 1/4" MDF.I ran into the same problem at the local home depot and Lowes...</p> <p>-James- </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-83 Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:35:57 +0000 Bill 83@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>I'm having trouble finding 1/4" masonite. My local Home Depot and Lowes do not stock it. I want to look into alternatives. Plywood sounds good, but they're thickness is generally thinner than advertised. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-81 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:22:40 +0000 Chris 81@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>We actually built a <a href="http://rainbowlazer.com/3d/rhino/diy-3-axis-cnc-millenhanced-machine-controller/">first-gen version of this machine</a> out of 1/2" acrylic. It looked amazing, but the acrylic did present a few issues. </p> <p>Acrylic is much heavier, harder and more brittle than masonite. This does not necessarily make for a stronger gantry; my guess is that the strongest material for <em>this</em> design would be a high-quality 1/4" plywood (steel or aluminum plate would be even stronger, but that calls for a different jointing method and more $$).</p> <p>The weight might add some extra stability, especially to the attachment points where the gantry sits on the Y-rails. Here we use an advanced gravitational joining technique (the gantry sits on the rails, held on by its own weight). </p> <p>The motors do get fairly hot--we measured them at about 130F--which could be an issue as far as bending (acrylic likes to bend when heated). </p> <p>Since all the tab slots in the CAD files are 0.24", this may be an issue as not all 1/4" acrylic is actually 1/4" thick so you may then need to adjust the CAD files accordingly. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/acrylic-vs-masonite#post-80 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:36:30 +0000 Bill 80@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>I would like to hear some pro and cons about using acrylic, instead of masonite, for the gantry system. Obviously, the cost would go up (way up?). It would also be heavier, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Would it make the gantry stronger? More stable? Any thoughts? </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-77 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:18:53 +0000 Chris 77@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Bill, the slot holes in the CAD files are set for 0.24". The masonite that we were working with was about 0.2"-0.23" thickness, but we actually found it was good to have a little bit of play in the T-bolt joints. </p> <p>Another option for those of you better-versed in CAD is to find the exact depth of material being used and adjust the slots accordingly in the file. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-76 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:58:20 +0000 Bill 76@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Is there an optimum thickness for the plans, as released? </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/before-you-get-panels-cut-read-this-post#post-75 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:16:36 +0000 Taylor 75@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Now that we've had a chance to follow some of your posts on the forum, a word of caution. Although the CAD files that we released in the Download section are the very same that we used to build a functioning DIYLILCNC here in Chicago, please bear in mind that we were sitting right in front of our laser cutter when we ran those files. As many of you know, there's nothing so difficult as getting a CNC machine to run a file right the first time. For those of you that are preparing to contract out your panel cutting, we strongly advise getting in touch with the service provider first to talk through some of the potential issues. </p> <p>Primary among potential problems is the tendency for stock (such as Masonite) to vary widely from its listed factory thickness. Even though we dealt with a consistent supplier, we found that 1/4" Masonite varies in actual thickness between .20" and .25". This won't affect the tab component of the project's joinery, but it will effect the slot component (found throughout the design).</p> <p>Wherever possible, we recommend that you pick a service provider that you can visit in person. Failing that, try to get someone who is a fellow maker (and more likely to cut some small fit tests for free before you take the plunge).</p> <p>It also seems that some of you are banding together in Canada and Australia to share build notes. That's great! Once you've identified good service providers perhaps we can list them on this forum. If we're really lucky, we can get them to keep the file on file, smoothing the way for future project builds. </p> http://diylilcnc.org/forum/topic/my-diy-cnc-project-is-better#post-16 Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:18:14 +0000 Taylor 16@http://diylilcnc.org/forum/ <p>Then feel free to post a link to it here. The point of our project is to centralize and facilitate the discussion about non-industrial CAD/CAM. We hope that DIY LIL CNC represents a step forward, but we'd also be thrilled if you made it better still. </p>